# These are helpful responses, most substantially from E. Hobbs, sent to # the b-greek email list on questions about what lexicon or grammar to use # in studying greek for the greek bible. I have pruned irrelevancies and # checked spelling, but made no material alterations. broman@nosc.mil Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 13:45:10 -0500 (EST) From: Edward Hobbs Subject: Comments on Greek lexicons, updated To: b-greek@virginia.edu EDWARD C. HOBBS on GREEK LEXICA ( I'm a long-time lexicon addict, owning every kind and type and example, studying them assiduously, and criticizing them constantly. I own two, or even three, of almost all of these, so I'll be sure to have one whether I'm in either of my offices or in my study.) ---Classical Greek--- The (financially) bad news is that really there is no choice for Classical Greek except the *only* current one: "New (9th) Edition" of Liddell-Scott-Jones-McKenzie. _A Greek-English Lexicon_ compiled by Henry George Liddell and Robert Scott. Revised and augmented throughout by Sir Henry Stuart Jones, with the assistance of Roderick McKenzie and with the co-operation of many scholars. With a supplement, 1968, edited by E. A. Barber. Oxford, at the Clarendon Press, 1968. [List price, $135] Oxford has announced a partially-new version of the 9th Edition with a completely revised supplement (2378 total pp.) The revised supplement by Glare will also be available separately (288 pp.) The new printing was promised for June 1995; as of October 1995, it has been re-scheduled for publication in March 1996. The good news is that the price has been dropped $10, to $125; even better news is that they have reinstated the pre-publication offer-- order before January 31, 1996, and it will cost only $100! (All prices plus $3.50 shipping.) The new version: _A Greek-English Lexicon: Ninth Edition with Revised Supplement_ compiled by Henry George Liddell and Robert Scott. Revised and augmented throughout by Sir Henry Stuart Jones, with the assistance of Roderick McKenzie and with the co-operation of many scholars. Supplement edited by P. G. W. Glare. Oxford, at the Clarendon Press, 1996. [List price, $125] [Supplement separately, $65] WARNING: Since both Liddell and Scott died over a century ago, the "Intermediate" [$35] and the "Abridged" [$30] Liddell-Scott, which fit in a book-bag, are in fact not based on the L-S-J-M, but are over a century old (1888 or 1889), based on the 7th ed. published in 1883 (usually and incorrectly cited as 1882, based on the Preface date). Since there is no choice, one takes what one can get. So either you shell out $135/$125 and be happy, or you pay $35 (Intermediate, 914 pp.) or $30 (Abridged, 808 pp.) and curse yourself every time you encounter the inadequacies AND the antiquities of the latter. (Incidentally, "Liddell" is pronounced "LID-'l", as though spelled "Liddle", never Lid-DELL. He was quite insistent on it! His daughter Alice was the Alice of "Alice in Wonderland.") There is a Langenscheidt "pocket" edition, commended by Carl Conrad. I do not possess it myself, but I trust Carl's judgment. ---New Testament Greek--- There is still only one adequate choice: Walter Bauer, _A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature_; translated into English by William F. Arndt and F. Wilbur Gingrich from 4th edition; "Second Edition [1979], revised and augmented by F. Wilbur Gingrich and Frederick W. Danker from Walter Bauer's 5th edition, 1958." University of Chicago Press; also available from Zondervan. [About $55] Unhappily, all three translators (Arndt, Gingrich, and Danker, the latter two being friends of mine) chose to "revise" and to "augment" in addition to translating; they are none of them any match for Bauer in lexicography, with the consequences quite evident. Often they simply attack Bauer's entries, instead of translating them! (See, as a really hilarious example, "skenepoios".) The absurd "causal eis," invented by J. R. Mantey to support his fundamentalist-Baptist doctrine of John's baptism (a matter of "translation driven by theology", as Gary Brower called it in one of his postings!), was given a full five-line special entry in the 1st ed. by Arndt & Gingrich; at least it was reduced in the 2nd ed. to three lines, and credited solely to Julius Mantey (who obviously couldn't read non-biblical Greek very well, as the great Greek scholar Ralph Marcus carefully pointed out in two separate articles, despite Mantey's co-writing a "grammar"). The result is that, although it is the best lexicon of the Greek New Testament available in English, it still suffers from the additions of its three translators. The more recent (6th) edition of Bauer (edited by Kurt and Barbara Aland, 1988) is better; but it is in German, with no English translation available for non-readers of German. [Footnote on Bauer-in-German:] Even Bauer was guilty of "translation driven by male-chauvinism" at times, the most incredible example being the entry for "Junias". This completely non-existent name is listed by Bauer with the fanciful guess that it must have been a nickname for `Junianus', and a statement that the purely theoretical possibility that the name is `Junia' (a very common woman's name) is rendered impossible by the context! The "impossible" is that Paul's remarkable lady-relative Junia was an apostle! Horrors! SURELY Phoebe was no deacon (a term Paul applies to himself), and Junia was no apostle (a term Paul applies to himself)! How can a WOMAN have been chosen by God for REAL ministry? Thank God, the NRSV and a few other recent translations have now restored Junia to her place in the apostolate, where even the King James Version had her. Even the great Bauer had his blindnesses! ------- [Additional comments by Edgar Krentz concerning forthcoming revision by Danker of the A-G-D translation of Bauer:] Fred Danker delivered the completed manuscript of the third edition to the University of Chicago Press in early April. (Can one call something on a hard disk a manuscript?) I called Fred Danker about it; he tells me the target date for its appearance in print is the Society of Biblical Literature meeting in 1996, i.e. approximately Thanksgiving of that year. I no longer have students purchase the 2nd edition because that date is close. If you want more accurate information, you might drop a note to Prof. Frederick W. Danker, 3438 Russell Ave., St. Louis, MO 63104. Tel.: 314-772-5757. ------- Wilbur Gingrich once prepared a small edition (_Shorter Lexicon of the Greek New Testament_); a 2nd edition, with Fred Danker, came out in 1983, and costs $30 for 221 pp. It is SO small and costs so much that I consider it not worth the bother. Some like it for portability. I tried using it with students for a few years after it came out, but it was SO brief, had so few "helps", and cost such a high proportion of the complete B-AG, that I switched to requiring B-AG (later B-AGD). If I were to recommend a "portable" lexicon for New Testament Greek, I'd try for Abbott-Smith, should it be still available and at a reasonable price. _A Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament_ by G. Abbott-Smith (a Canadian!). This came out in 1921, 1923, and 1937 (editions 1 through 3), and has been reprinted frequently since then, by T. & T. Clark (Edinburgh). I'm not sure if it is still in print, nor at what price. But it was beyond question the lexicon of choice prior to the appearance of Bauer in English; I used it with my classes in those pre-1957 years. It includes quite a bit of information from the papyri, it gives many references to use of words in LXX with the original Hebrew word (even pointed!) behind the Greek term or word or usage, and includes a plethora of passages cited. It also gives etymologies (dangerous though that is?). To supplement Carl Conrad's brief warning on the Newman lexicon published by the United Bible Societies: The English-speaking Bible Societies decided to have a small English lexicon bound with some printings of UBS's _The Greek New Testament_, and Barclay M. Newman, Jr., got the job (with the advice of, among others, my old roommate Erroll Rhodes). This lexicon is deceptive, misleading the very persons who use it -- beginners. It gives, in the main, the RSV translations of each Greek word. If one wants that, one can read an English New Testament, to wit, the RSV!. It isn't frightful, but since it is a poor lexicon on the whole, it is largely useless. Too bad that it's the only one bound with the UBS _Greek New Testament_. The Louw & Nida lexicon is often mentioned. _Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament based on Semantic Domains_ edited by Johannes P. Louw and Eugene A. Nida, 2 volumes; United Bible Societies [available through American Bible Society]. First Edition 1988; Second Edition, 1989. Price is $35 for two-volume set-- would probably be $80-100 from any other publisher. While it does not replace the need for Liddell-Scott-Jones nor for Bauer, it fills a real gap among lexica. It has a rather specialized use. Not only is it organized "semantically," which requires using the index volume constantly to discover where the desired word is to be found, but it is primarily written for the use of translators of the New Testament into languages not yet having Bibles in the vernacular. It is very "translation-oriented," which isn't usually what a researcher wants or needs (unless one is a translator). (Incidentally, and happily, they ALWAYS refer to Bauer's lexicon as "Bauer's lexicon" or "Bauer's dictionary"; they initially mention it "as translated and revised by Gingrich and Danker". Since no one refers to _Crime and Punishment_ as written by Constance Garnett, I don't understand why Americans like to refer to Bauer's lexicon as though it were written by its translators.) The quickest way to see its virtues is to read their "Introduction" (pp. vi-xx, same in both 1st and 2nd editions), and then to sample one article in Vol. 1 and one in Vol. 2. ------- [Additional comments by Edgar Krentz concerning Louw & Nida:] Louw & Nida is difficult for a beginning student to use. The more acquaintance one has with ancient Greek literature beyond the Greek Bible, the more intelligently one can use it. It is *no substitute* for a traditional, alphabetically arranged lexicon. I would probably elect to have students use the old Abbott-Smith lexicon (T & T Clark) as a first lexicon, and send them to the library to use B-AGD, 2nd ed. ------- ---Patristic Greek--- Even when you have paid a small fortune for the LSJM, you will not have a lexicon for the Church Fathers (Patristics), since that body of literature was deliberately excluded from it. The only serious option is: G. W. H. Lampe, _A Patristic Greek Lexicon_, Oxford, at the Clarendon Press, 1961-1968. No longer listed in Oxford's catalogs, but still in print. It is hideously expensive at $285, hence is the only important lexicon of ancient Greek which I do not own; I jog to the library when I need it. ---"Septuagint" Greek--- In LSJM, the LXX is given fairly short shrift, with the result that many students find the older 8th edition (1897) better for LXX. But, in fact, there is NO really good lexicon yet for the LXX. The reason is pretty obvious: It is a translated collection, and one is often left wondering whether to give the meaning of the Hebrew (or Aramaic) original behind a word, or to give the (supposed) meaning in the head(s) of the translator(s) based on other Hellenistic usage. The Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft has such a lexicon under way, though it is somewhat sketchy, doing little of what such a lexicon should do (perhaps for the reasons I outlined above). The A-I volume (paperback), which came out in 1992, is $24 plus handling charge and tax. It has 217 pages, plus introduction. The rest is planned for release by Christmas of 1995. _A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint_, compiled by J. Lust, E. Eynikel, and K. Hauspie, with the collaboration of G. Chamberlain. ---"Parsing Lexicons"--- Concerning inflected-forms dictionaries: The antique Liddell-Scott Abridged (over a century old, which should have been replaced decades ago but hasn't been) parses forms which an English schoolboy reading Xenophon et alia in "Public" School might have trouble with. It covers few of the forms New Testament readers are likely to find daunting. The old "Analytical Greek Lexicon" covered almost all forms in the New Testament, but was filled with so many hundreds of errors that it was worse than nothing, since the novice cannot spot these errors. However, FEAR NOT! The dreadful 1852 Analytical Lexicon (1852, despite "1970" in reprint!) was "corrected and revised" by Harold K. Moulton, published by Bagster [original publisher of 1852 edition!] in 1977, in London, and in 1978 in the USA by Zondervan. Title: _The Analytical Greek Lexicon Revised_: 1978 Edition. Harold is the son of James Hope Moulton, and grandson of W. F. Moulton, two great Greek grammarians. This edition works from photos of the early printing, with errors and misprints corrected, and then has an addendum giving the forms which were omitted from the original Bagster's Lexicon. Wesley J. Perschbacher has also edited a corrected and revised version of the 1852 edition: _The New Analytical Greek Lexicon_, published by Hendrickson in 1990. This version is newly type-set, with a slightly better appearance on the page. Max Zerwick, S.J., of the Biblicum in Rome published his _Analysis Philologica Novi Testamenti Graeci_ at the Pontifical Biblical Institute in 1953; I have the 3rd ed., 1966. It goes through the New Testament verse by verse, parsing odd forms, explaining the grammatical structures, solving puzzles (Zerwick's solutions, of course), with references to his useful but brief grammar. It's in Latin, but for those who read only English and want to learn Greek, Mary Grosvenor made a translation (also "revised and adapted") in two volumes, 1974 (through Acts) and 1979 (Romans through Apocalypse), titled _An Analysis of the Greek New Testament_. Later came out in a single volume; very handy, small format. A similar help, though much more "written down" to the beginner, a bit patronizing, and uncomfortably protestant-conservative, is the Cleon Rogers translation of Fritz Rienecker's _Sprachlicher Schluessel zum Greek New Testament_: _Linguistic Key to the Greek New Testament_ (1976, 1980; perhaps later editions), issued by Zondervan. Also small, handy format. Sakae Kubo produced a nifty vocabulary guide for rapid reading of the Greek New Testament: _A Reader's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament_ (1967 through 1975, when a "beginner's guide" was added). Zondervan. It gives many helpful frequency tables, verb charts, inflection charts, in addition to its main job: Going through the Greek New Testament chapter by chapter, listing every word which occurs fewer than 5 times in that book. He assumes you know the 301 words occurring more than 50 times in the Greek New Testament (he gives a list), then lists all words in the book-in-hand (e.g., Romans) occurring more than 5 times in that book but less than 50 in the whole New Testament. One needs to know these to use the volume for rapid-reading. Then the infrequent words are given, with quickie translations, verse by verse. A VERY helpful tool for novices. He also gives a list of unusual or hard-to-spot forms, actually an abridgement of the long list in Abbott-Smith's Manual Greek Lexicon. Finally, a book doing the same thing as the Analytical Lexicon, except that it is arranged in the order the words occur in the New Testament (i.e., one starts reading Matthew, and it parses every word in order (with some high-frequency exceptions): Nathan E. Han, _A Parsing Guide to the Greek New Testament_, Herald Press, 1971. It was printed from typed copy, tolerably readable (but could be better). --Edward Hobbs Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1991 19:03 EDT From: Edward Hobbs Subject: CBD catalog, & lexica To: NT-GREEK@Virginia.EDU Responding to Jeffery Condit's citation of the CBD catalog: I deal with CBD often; I spend two hours driving to attend their quarterly Saturday-super-sales. But be wary of their PRICE CLAIMS, and their descriptions. A nice fellow writes the catalog descriptions, but he knows little about real scholarship. So he writes the kind of nonsense quoted about BAGD (i.e., B, by AG/GD); Oliver Phillips is of course correct, that Liddell-Scott-Jones is the ONLY comprehensive lexicon of ancient Greek, to be supplemented by Bauer (preferably the latest [I think 6th--my copy isn't in this room], but the AG, rev. GD, translation of the 5th if necessary) for N.T. + other early Xn lit, and by Lampe for patristic Greek. PRICE CLAIMS: I haven't the latest Chicago catalog handy, but CBD has always said the list is about $5 to $10 more than it is. Chicago and Zondervan both sell the AG/GD translation of Bauer, at short discount. I've always found that this lexicon is cheaper at Harvard Divinity School Bookstore than at CBD, and often also at Divinitas. CBD software prices are HIGH; lower prices by mail are easy to find, for what they carry. But better stuff is usually available elsewhere for MUCH less. See Bob Kraft's early lists on this LIST, available from U Penn; for Greek & Hebrew & Arabic, ChiWriter is cheaper than anything else, from Horstmann (even better buy through Paul Miller at Gramcord (see new address on early posting on this LIST). Parsons Technology in Cedar Rapids, IA, has incredibly cheap English translations with a fast-access program (many translations, including NRSV [CORRECTED! -- it has the missing clause in Revelation!], in the $50 range -- far lower than any CBD carries (CBD told me they can't get Parsons programs [called QUICKVERSE -- be sure to get version 2.0], probably because they are so low priced to begin with). LEXICON: The Louw & Nida lexicon has been mentioned a couple of times, and recently quoted on this LIST. I would like to give it a strong plug. (My qualifications for plugging it: I'm a long-time lexicon addict, owning every kind and type and example, studying them assiduously, and criticizing them constantly.) While the Louw & Nida does not replace the need for Liddell-Scott-Jones nor for Bauer, it fills a real gap among lexica. (Incidentally, they ALWAYS refer to Bauer's lexicon as "Bauer's lexicon" or "Bauer's dictionary"; they initially mention "as translated and revised by Gingrich and Danker".) The quickest way to see its virtues is to read their "Introduction" (pp. vi-xx, same in both 1st and 2nd editions), and then to sample one article in Vol. 1 and one in Vol. 2. United Bible Societies, available through American Bible Society. Price is $20 for both volumes in my last-spring catalog! Would be $80-100 from anywhere else. Have your library get it if you can't afford $20. Too long already -- sorry for my loquacity. --Edward Hobbs Date: Wed, 4 Dec 91 16:32:48 CST From: Oliver Phillips Subject: lexical matters To: New Testament Greek Cindy Smith asks for recommendations on Classical Greek Lexica, and I send her the following two references downloaded from our on-line library catalogue, and I follow this by some comments on the "philosophy" question also raised by someone else recently. There are effectively only two choices for Classical Greek lexica in print and of any real use. The first is preferable but big and ex- pensive--though perhaps not outrageously so as the world goes now. It's not what you'd lug off to class in the morning. The second is an abridge- ment of the first. One abridges a book by leaving out things you really need to know, but for basic reading purposes, it's the one. Anything smaller would be useless, even misleading. AUTHOR: Liddell, Henry George, 1811-1898. TITLE: A Greek-English lexicon, compiled by Henry George Liddell and Robert Scott. Rev. and augm. throughout by Sir Henry Stuart Jones, with the assistance of Roderick McKenzie and with the co-operation of many scholars. With a supplement, 1968. PUBLISHER: Oxford, Clarendon Press <1968>, 1978 printing. SUBJECT: Greek language--Dictionaries--English. OTHER ENTRIES: - Scott, Robert, 1811-1887. - Jones, Henry Stuart, 1867-1939. - McKenzie, Roderick, 1887-1937. AUTHOR: Liddell, Henry George, 1811-1898. TITLE: A lexicon. Abridged from Liddell and Scott's Greek-English lexicon. EDITION: Completely rev. and considerably enlarged. PUBLISHER: Oxford, New York, Clarendon Press <1984 printing> SUBJECT: Greek language--Dictionaries--English. OTHER ENTRIES: - Scott, Robert, 1811-1887. - Greek-English lexicon. DESCRIPTION: 804 p. 19 cm. There may be later printings of one or both of these. Oliver Phillips Classics, U. of Kansas PHILLIPS@UKANVM.BITNET Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1992 11:51 EDT From: Edward Hobbs <EHOBBS@lucy.wellesley.edu> Subject: Classical Greek textbooks To: NT-GREEK@Virginia.EDU In response to Gary Collier's inquiry about introductory textbooks for Classical Greek: The nearest thing to a "standard" these days (and the best one to my personal knowledge) is GREEK: AN INTENSIVE COURSE, by Hardy Hansen and Gerald M. Quinn (New York: Fordham Univ. Press). Be sure to look at the Second Revised Edition (1992) rather than the Revised Edition (1987). Quinn was killed in an auto accident last year, but this edition was already at the Press when he died. The text was modeled (more or less) on the wonderful LATIN: AN INTENSIVE COURSE, which I'm sure all of you know. --Edward Hobbs P.S.: If I have time, I'll comment on the NT Greek texts and grammars later. That, my friends, is a quagmire! Return-Path: <nt-greek-request@virginia.edu> Date: 05 Apr 94 14:39:28 EDT From: David John Marotta <djm5g@virginia.edu> To: New Testament Greek Mailing List <NT-Greek@virginia.edu> Subject: Survey of New Testament Textbooks being used... (results) As promised, here are the results of what NT Greek textbooks are being used by those on this list. Not everyone answered (or not everyone is teaching NT Greek) but I thought this list might spark further survey responses! NT Greek: Frequently Asked Questions #0: Index of questions: 1. What New Testament textbooks are institutions using? 1. What New Testament textbooks are institutions using? Alphabetically by Institution: 1994: INSTITUTION: Calvin College 1ST YEAR: Alpha to Omega by Anne Groton (not NT Greek) 2ND YEAR: Greek New Testament from American Bible Society Gingrich: Shorter Lexicon of the Greek NT. CONTACT: Richard F. Wevers <weve@ursa.calvin.edu> 1994: INSTITUTION: Christian Theological Seminary (Indianapolis) 1ST YEAR: A Grammar for New Testament Greek by James M. Efird CONTACT: Calvin L. Porter <CPorter@butler.edu> TEACHER (1994): J. Gerald Janzen <Janzen@Butler.edu> 1994: INSTITUTION: Emory University/Candler School of Theology 1ST YEAR: New Testament Greek for Beginners by J. Gresham Machen Note: I have not taught this course before, but this is the text I've decided to go with for next year. The course has been taught in the past with the same text by Clayton Croy, who is not on the net. CONTACT: Philip Graber <pgraber@unix.cc.emory.edu> 1994: INSTITUTION: Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary (Memphis, Tennessee) 1ST YEAR: Basics of Biblical Greek by William Mounce CONTACT: Steve Waechter <swaechter@utmem1.utmem.edu> <swaechter@utmem1> (bitnet) 1994: INSTITUTION: Ontario Theological Seminary 1ST YEAR: The Elements of New Testament Greek by J.W. Wenham CONTACT: Harry Hahne <hahne@epas.utoronto.ca> 1994: INSTITUTION: Randolph-Macon College, Ashland, VA 23005-5505 1ST YEAR: Reading Greek for three semesters by Jact (Cambridge Univ Press) In 4th semester I do a NT gospel (mark or luke) and an epistle if there is time. I do my own transition. I serve both pre-min and pagans. CONTACT: Gregory N. Daugherty <gdaugher@cscsun.rmc.edu> 1994: INSTITUTION: Smith College 2ND YEAR: Fundamental Greek Grammar by James Voelz (Classical Greek is a prerequisite) CONTACT: Karl P. Donfried <KDONFRIED@Smith.smith.edu> 1994: INSTITUTION: University of Edinburgh 1ST YEAR: by Wenham CONTACT: D Mealand <ewnt05@castle.ed.ac.uk> 1994: INSTITUTION: Wellesley College 1ST YEAR: Greek: An Intensive Course by Hansen & Quinn (Classical--we don't begin with NT) 2ND YEAR: Transformational-Generative Grammar of Hellenistic Greek by Edward C. Hobbs (Berkeley 1977) (Used it 1st year in Berkeley) CONTACT: Edward Hobbs <ehobbs@lucy.wellesley.edu> The year (e.g. 1994) represents when the information was given to me. If you wish to add or update this information for your institution, please send me <djm5g@virginia.edu> a note. David John Marotta, Medical Center Computing, Stacey Hall Univ of Virginia (804) 982-3718 wrk INTERNET: djm5g@virginia.edu Box 512 Med Cntr (804) 924-5261 msg BITNET: djm5g@virginia C'ville VA 22908 (804) 296-7209 fax IBM US: usuvarg8 Return-Path: <owner-b-greek@virginia.edu> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 1994 10:24:56 -0400 (EDT) From: YOUNG@cstcc.cc.tn.us Subject: New Intermediate Grammar Announcement To: B-Greek@virginia.edu Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello, Friends, Intermediate-level grammars of the Greek NT are few and far between. Subscribers to B-Greek may be interested in the forthcoming release from Broadman & Holman called _Intermediate New Testament Greek: A Linguistic and Exegetical Approach_ by Richard A. Young. The release date is August 12, 1994 in time for the Fall semester. The book is designed to help students in NT Greek classes better use their knowledge of Greek in the exegesis of the NT. It accomplishes this goal by augmenting traditional grammar with insights from modern linguistics. The author takes students beyond the surface structure of the language by introducing them to a number of modern linguistic models, including a modified transformational grammar, propositional analysis, genre criticism, semantic structural analysis, pragmatics, speech act theory, and discourse analysis. The book is written with clarity and precision, being neither too simple nor overly cumbersome and pedantic. Each chapter ends with exercises. An Answer Key will be provided *free* to instructors who adopt the text. Contents: Introduction: Language Study and the Exegetical Task, (1) Nominative, Vocative, and Accusative, (2) The Genitive, (3) The Dative, (4) The Article, (5) Pronouns and Adjectives, (6) Prepositional Phrases, (7) Present, Imperfect, and Future, (8) Aorist, Perfect, and Pluperfect, (9) Voice and Mood, (10) Participles, (11) Infinitives, (12) Conjunctions, (13) Adverbs and Particles, (14) Sentence Structure, (15) Special Sentences and Clauses, (16) Figurative Language, (17) Discourse Analysis, (18) Diagraming. The book has a bibliography, subject and Scripture indices. The ISBN is 0-8054-1059-7, and it will sell for $21.99. Laura Young Librarian Return-Path: <owner-b-greek@virginia.edu> Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 18:39:13 -0500 (CDT) From: rod.j.decker@uwrf.edu Subject: Greek grammars To: b-greek@virginia.edu Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > What about grammars? The standard reference grammars are Blass, DeBrunner, Funk, "A Greek Grammar of the NT and Other Early Christian Literature" and Moulton, Howard, Turner, "Grammar of NT Greek" (4 vols.). Both are pretty "heavy" for even intermediate students. Much more accessible to many is Stan Porter's recent "Idioms of the Greek NT" (Sheffield, 1992)--which is a full-fledged grammar, not just a treatment of idioms. For a bit over 300 pgs. this one is very well done. Coming next fall (95) from Dan Wallace is "Exegetical Syntax" (Zondervan) that will be somewhere between an intermediate grammar and the big reference tools (though it will be advertised as an intermediate). I'm working with 400+ pgs. in draft form as a pilot run this fall in 2d year Greek and though I've just received it this past week, my initial impressions are favorable.. There are some others, but these are the bet in my judgment. Dana and Mantey was a standard in many circles for a long time, but is long outdated and I wouldn't regard it as the most reliable at present. Rodney J. Decker Assistant Professor of Greek and Theology Calvary Theological Seminary, Kansas City (94-95 sabbatical explains the Univ. of Wisc. address!) Return-Path: <owner-b-greek@virginia.edu> From: k.share@genie.geis.com Date: Sat, 1 Apr 95 21:49:00 UTC To: b-greek@virginia.edu Subject: Lexicons Additions to the many lexicon comments: ABS has a new LXX lexicon. The first vol (A-I) is available now and they say the second will be available later this year. I think the price of the first vol is about $20. # 800-322-4253. Oxford lists a forthcoming printing of the 9th edition of L&S with a revised supplement (2378 total p.) The supplement is supposed to be a complete replacement of the 1968 supplement. Price is $100 until May 15. The new supplement is available separately at $52 (288 p.) # 800-451-7556. The Oxford sale also covers the 3 basic editions of L&S @ $108 for the big one, $28 for the Intermediate and $24 for the Abridged. Ken Share k.share@genie.geis.com Return-Path: <owner-b-greek@virginia.edu> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 19:55:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Edward Hobbs <EHOBBS@wellesley.edu> Subject: Further ramblings on Lexica To: b-greek@virginia.edu Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Several more comments and inquiries re: lexicons have come in, to which I think I should respond. (1) Ken Share has shared (!) his knowledge of a new Supplement to LSJ, replacing Barber's (1968). (I missed this catalog, apparently; mine was Winter, and doesn't mention it.) $100 for the whole LSJM, plus the new Supplement, sounds like a great deal. (I don't really need a fourth copy of LSJM, do I? But $52 for the 288 page Supplement alone seems steep, when all the rest [2,111 pages] costs only another $48.) He also mentions the ABS publication of a Lexicon to the LXX. I didn't mention this for two reasons. It is only half finished, though the rest is due out before Christmas. And it is a somewhat sketchy job, doing little of what such a lexicon should do (perhaps for the reasons I outlined in my previous post). The A-I volume (paperback), which came out three years ago, is $24 plus handling charge and tax. It has 217 pages, plus introduction. Share is right -- I should have mentioned it, and didn't. (2) Perry Stepp touches on three matters: He heard that a new edition of BAGD "is due out soon." Two years ago, Fred Danker wrote that a revision is "due out before the year 2000." But when I talked with him at length eight or nine months later (Nov. 1993), he was really vague about it; he more or less blamed U. of Chicago Press for stalling, and when I pressed him on a number of aspects of the lexicon which desperately need correction, he again was a bit vague about when (even if) anything could be done about them, within any easily foreseeable time. Thus, while I hope that Stepp's informant was right (if so, to whom do we send criticisms and revisions?), I do not think one should hold off on a purchase now in hopes of getting something better soon. He likes the "Little BAG" for portability. I tried using it with students for a few years after it came out, but it was SO brief, had so few "helps", and cost such a high proportion of the complete BAG, that I switched to requiring BAG (later BAGD). To tell the truth, if I were pushed into a corner on recommending a "portable" lexicon for NT Greek, I think I'd try for Abbott-Smith, should it be still available and at a reasonable price. (See below for more on Abbott-Smith.) Finally, Stepp asks about the Schmoller Handkonkordanz. We had quite a discussion of it a few years ago, when I spoke very negatively about the Schmoller--as too bulky, and too unhelpful in many ways. But that is not the case with the Beate Koester revision of Schmoller, which is a lovely little volume ($24.50 + handling) with quite a few nice features. I don't use it much at all, since I seem to know where most of the passages are which use the words in it (I was then accused of having memorized the Greek New Testament! --untrue); almost every time I try to find a usage in it, I can't find it there and have to use the Aland Computer Concordance or the (fine) old Moulton and Geden. But for students and those not professionally into the New Testament, the Schmoller-Koester [no relation to Helmut Koester] is very good, and in a wonderful small format, nicely printed (neither was true of Schmoller before Koester). Your extensively brief colleague, Edward Hobbs Return-Path: <owner-b-greek@virginia.edu> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 01:48:51 -0400 From: Timster132@aol.com To: B-greek@virginia.edu Cc: kenneth@sybase.com Subject: Re: LXX, NT and Apostolic Fa.... To: B-greek@virginia.edu cc: kenneth@sybase.com from: Timster132@aol.com Ken said.... > I don't know where to go to find a vocab list to memorize >for low-frequency words in the NT, let alone the LXX or the >Apos. Fathers. Does anyone have any suggestions? There are several lists of special LXX vocab found in Part II, Chapter 4 in the _Introduction to the Old Testament in Greek_ by H.B. Swete. More striking than the vocab differences from the NT is the grammatical makeup of the LXX (esp. the syntax). For a compact grammar of the LXX, you might want to check out _A Grammar of Septuagint Greek_ by F.C. Conybeare and St. George Stock (Zondervan [Acadamie Books], Grand Rapids, MI reprint 1980). Another suggestion I might make as to extra-NT vocab is that you might take a look at the vocab appendix in _Hellenistic Greek Texts_ by Wikgren, Coldwell and R. Marcus. As for a list of most to least frequently used words, I was unable to find one for LXX Greek/Patristics. I thought I had one for NT Greek, but couldn't find it. But I did find _Lists of Words (Occurring Frequently in the Hebrew Bible), Seminary Edition_ by John D. W. Watts (Eerdmans, Grand Rapids, MI, 1960. [It is based on Lexicon in Veteris Testementi Libros, Koeler-Baumgartner (Leiden, 1953)]. While this isn't what you were look for, I think it gives you a place to look, it you can't find a Greek list for freq. used words. I am pretty sure Eerdmans had a Seminary Edition _List of Words_ for Greek. Good luck. Peace, Tim Staker Return-Path: <owner-b-greek@virginia.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 22:20:11 -0600 To: b-greek@virginia.edu From: "Edgar M. Krentz" <emkrentz@mcs.com> Subject: Re: LXX, NT and Apostolic Fa. Word lists Cc: Kenneth Litwak <kenneth@sybase.com> > I have learned that I need to be able to sight read all the above >literature in Greek. Unfortunately, I don't know where to go to find >a vocab list to memorize for low-frequency words in the NT, let alone >the LXX or the Apos. Fathers. Does anyone have any suggestions? I almost >decided against my PhD program next Fall because of this requirement. >Thanks in advance. > >Ken Litwak >Emeryville, CA I am sorry it took me this long, but I have a few additional bibliographic items for learning NT Greek vocabulary. One cam choose from a number of books. The most complete is Trenchard, though its size makes it threatening. The most useful may be Robinson. Bruce M. Metzger. _Lexical Aids for Students of New Testament Greek._ New edition. Princeton, NJ: Theological Book Agency, 1983. Lists of all words occurring ten or more times in the NT in Part I;Part II contains lists of words based on stems. Study of this section will increase one's vocabulary geometrically. This was the standard for the first twenty years I taught Greek. It is now surpassed by the next three texts. Thomas A. Robinson. _Mastering Greek Vocabulary._ Peabody: Hendrickson, 1990. A very practical text. Robinson first gives a list of Greek terms that have become English vocabulary' then an extensive list of words arranged by roots (cognate words); next comes a list of "derived" English words that will help one to learn Greek; fourth is an explanation of Greek prefixes and suffixes, i.e. principles of word formation. Careful and continued use of this work will increase vocabulary immensely. 176 pp. Warren C. Trenchard. _The Student's Complete Vocabulary Guide to the Greek New Testament Complete Frequency Lists, Cognate Groupings & Principal Parts._ Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1992, 340 pp. Includes a complete frequency list of all words in the GNT. Robert E. Van Voorst. _Building Your New Testament Greek Vocabulary._ Grand Rapids: Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1990. 110 pp. A work that may give substantial help is Richard M. Krill. _Greek and Latin in English Today. Wauconda, IL: Bolchazy-Carducci, 1993. 250 pp., covering both Greek and Latin. Kurt Aland, ed. _Vollstaendige Konkordanz zum Griechischen Neuen Testament._ Vol. II: Spezialuebersichten. Berlin, New York: Walter de Gruyter, 1978, contains many useful lists: Complete statistical data for the text of NA26. Pp. 449-460 give a list of the words that are unique to each writing (HAPAX LEGOMENA). This is an extremely expensive set ($850.00) and so you will find it only in major theological or university libraries. There is no special list for the Apostolic Fathers. The closest one can come is the _Index Patristicus_, edited by Edgar John Goodspeed years ago. Alec Allenson reprinted it in the 1950s, I think, but it is long out of print. Finally, if one has the patience, one will also learn a great deal by working through a larger grammar's discussion of the formation of Greek words. For this I recommend Herbert Weir Smyth, _A Greek Grammar._ Cambridge: Harvard University Press, reprint of a 1920 original with corrections. This is the best grammar of classical Greek available in English; it belongs on every NT scholar's shelves. Smyth also includes citations from the NT and the LXX at times. Pp. 225-254 treat the "Formation of Words." The section will not be exciting reading, but repays careful study. There are much more substantial works in German whose titles I can give to anyone interested. But finally, the very best way to learn vocabulary is to translate some Greek each day. Begin with the New Testament, add some texts from the Apostolic Fathers, mix in some Septuagint, and then move on to Greek authors of the early empire: Musonius Rufus, Epictetus, some Lucian, etc. Don't be afraid to guess--and then check yourself against a good lexicon, LSJ for the last group of authors. One learns by seeing the same term in many new contexts. We all began where you are, so don't despair. I may be carrying owls to Athens with this communication. If so, trash it. Edgar Krentz Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago emkrentz@mcs.com (Voice) Home: 312/947-8105; Off.: 312-753-0752 Return-Path: <owner-b-greek@virginia.edu> Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 17:53:04 -0500 (EST) From: Edward Hobbs <EHOBBS@wellesley.edu> Subject: Moule's Idiom Book To: b-greek@virginia.edu Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT James Kuiper asks about Moule's Idiom Book. I published a review of it when it first came out in 1953 (I've been teaching Greek since 1947), and consulted it from time to time, especially while preparing my own TRANSFORMATIONAL-GENERATIVE GRAMMAR OF HELLENISTIC GREEK back in the 1970's. But while it has good things in it, it is really much more like what any seasoned Greek scholar might write without being too systematic or exhaustive; it has his thoughts about those things he has thought about (very sensible, too), but in no way covers the field. It's an "extra" worth dipping into; but not a basic grammar. (On the other hand, there are almost none of those worth using, when it comes to Hellenistic Greek. Plenty of textbooks, of course, some by contributors to this List, whose books are high quality indeed.) What we need is a Hellenistic (or even just NT) equivalent of Smyth-Messing. And just that is probably under way to being prepared, by an outstanding group of young scholars, some of whom (again!) are on this very List. But I suspect that is years away. The problem with Blass-Debrunner of course is that is presumes you already know Classical Greek, as the people it was written for did. (And for people like me, who only studied Classical Greek, and learned Hellenistic, then later NT, by reading thick, verbose grammars (like Robertson), over-concise ones (like Debrunner), and really bad ones (like Dana-Mantey), but above all by reading tons of Greek texts. I suspect Carl did it the same way. Edward Hobbs Return-Path: <owner-b-greek@virginia.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 09:50:11 -0600 To: Eric Weiss <eweiss@acf.dhhs.gov> From: "Edgar M. Krentz" <emkrentz@mcs.com> Subject: re: Great Greek Books! Cc: b-greek@virginia.edu >2 questions: > >What is the status of the English edition of the revision to BAGD, i.e., when >will it be available, what is the retail and discount mail-order price? > >Any opinions about Loew and Nida's Lexicon according to Semantic Domains? > >Thanks! Fred Danker delivered the completed manuscript of the third edition to the University of Chicago Press in early April. (Can one call something on a hard disk a manuscript?) I called Fred Danker about it; he tells me the target date for its appearance in print is the Society of Biblical Literature meeting in 1996, i.e. approximately Thanksgiving of that year. I no longer have students purchase the 2nd edition because that date is close. If you want more accurate information, you might drop a note to Prof. Frederick W. Danker, 3438 Russell Ave., St. Louis, MO 63104. Tel.: 314-772-5757. As far as the Loew-Nida work is concerned, it is difficult for a beginning student to use. The more acquaintance one has with ancient Greek literature beyond the Greek Bible, the more intelligently one can use it. It is *no substitute* for a traditional, alphabetically arranged lexicon. I would probably elect to have student use the old Abbott-Smith lexicon (T & T Ckark) as a first lexicon, and send them to the library to use BAGD, 2nd ed. Hope this information helps. Peace, Edgar Krentz <emkrentz@mcs.com> New Testament, Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago Voice: 312-753-0752; FAX: 312-753-0782 Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 15:03:19 -0400 From: WINBROW@aol.com To: karen_pitts@maca.sarnoff.com Cc: b-greek@virginia.edu Subject: Re: RE > 1 John Commentaries an Karen Pitts wrote, > For my own personal study, I'm looking for a good grammar that's in between > introductory Greek (for which I already have three, Efrid, Voeltz, and "It's > Greek to Me") and Smythe.... I'm also > teaching introductory Greek, so I need something to answer my students' > questions. If you want to answer your student's questions, you should have Robert Funk, A Beginning-Intermediate Grammar of Hellenistic Greek. Vol. I gives good discussions for the mastery of morphology with enough syntax to get started. Vol. II is Syntax and Vol. III is a very useful appendix and further explanation of Morphology. Many people have found Brooks and Winbery, Syntax of NT Greek an easy introduction to syntax, but I have often disagreed with some of the examples selected by Brooks. Carlton Winbery La College, Pineville, La Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 14:44:01 -0400 From: Greg Crane <gcrane@perseus.tufts.edu> To: classics@u.washington.edu Subject: viewing Greek texts and on-line LSJ with Netscape Some people have inquired about taking a look at the on-line LSJ in its current, very *rough*, working form.... My immediate impression is that the on-line LSJ is *much* easier to read than the print (no surprise). I suspect that it may even be easier for intermediate students to use than the Middle Liddell or Little Liddell -- after all, once you have an article, even a long one, you can use Netscape to find "Aesch." or "Plat." We would be very interested in feedback both about the many rough edges remaining in the lexicon and about its usability. Reactions of both faculty and students would be appreciated. Most Perseus 2.0 texts are on-line. From the English translations you can get to the Greek. If you turn on the morphological links button, you can click on any word and gets its possible morphological analyses. From there, you can get to LSJ. Now, to see a sample of our working copy of the on-line LSJ, try, for example, the following URL: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/lexindex?entry=a)podi/dwmi If you want to see some Greek text with links first to morphological analyses of words and then to LSJ, check out the on-line Perseus texts at: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/Texts/chunk_TOC.html If you are impatient, you can try, for example, the following URL: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/text?lookup=plut.+cim.+8.7&morph=morph& vers=greek ******************************* If anyone tries it, I should like to hear reactions, know which fonts you used, etc. Greg Crane Editor in Chief Perseus Project Tufts University